Did I get H. Pylori or was it something else? *PLEASE HELP*

[Gawad]

Hi. I'm new to this forum. I signed up here just to solve my personal enigma. I apologize if I'm at the wrong section.

This was from 6 months ago; I went to bed feeling rather fine. I then started to notice that I was getting nauseous. It went so severe after 20 minutes. All in all, I woke up very nauseous in the morning. After a few hours in the morning, I had chills, fever and fatigue. They seemed like a typical "stomach flu" symptoms (norovirus? rotavirus?). They lasted for 10 days.

(A month later I had minor relapses of this, with milder nausea but with a lot of stomach cramps.)

Anyway, I got a breath test 3-4 weeks later. The results came up and said "H. Pylori", but it was unequivocal (neither negative nor positive). I went in for a second opinion, after reading about H. Pylori and how my symptoms differed from it, and then they told me that it could've been a "false positive". So if it was, say, the norovirus, could they have really mistaken it for bacteria?

Thank you.

[power1]

Hi,

If you did the urea breathe test, C13 or C14, the sensitivity test is around 95%+ while the specificity is about 97% there...meaning the breathe test is mainly targeting for the H.pylori bacteria.

You should most probably be getting a reading value if you were high above the infected baseline or absolutely below the infected baseline.
If you are at the borderline, it is most possible you might either want to get yourself scoped, or it might be due to some medication/supplements you are taking at the background that is suppressing the correct result.


Alternatively, a stool or blood test could be examined, but these test have a sensitivity/specificity that are lower compare to the breathe test.
From my experience, I had an IgG antigen blood test for H.pylori, which was negative, BUT I was still having positive under the scope for Rapid Urease Test.

Hope I manage to answer something here.

[Gawad]

Hi,

If you did the urea breathe test, C13 or C14, the sensitivity test is around 95%+ while the specificity is about 97% there...meaning the breathe test is mainly targeting for the H.pylori bacteria.

You should most probably be getting a reading value if you were high above the infected baseline or absolutely below the infected baseline.
If you are at the borderline, it is most possible you might either want to get yourself scoped, or it might be due to some medication/supplements you are taking at the background that is suppressing the correct result.


Alternatively, a stool or blood test could be examined, but these test have a sensitivity/specificity that are lower compare to the breathe test.
From my experience, I had an IgG antigen blood test for H.pylori, which was negative, BUT I was still having positive under the scope for Rapid Urease Test.

Hope I manage to answer something here.

Thanks for the reply.

I really have no idea what kind of breath test it was. They don't usually tell you. And I didn't ask. All I remember was breathing in a silver bag. I didn't take any "strong" medication at that time. If that counts, I was on paracetamol and anti-nausea pills (although I ran out of the latter).

Btw, I have no symptoms now. I got better 2-3 weeks after my initial symptoms. But I just wanted to know if I really got H. Pylori or was it a typical stomach virus. Why would H.Pylori show up as half negative/positive...? This really puzzles me.

[power1]

from what i know the UBT is very high specificity and sensitivity for Helicobacter bacteria, that changes the urea you take, and create additional CO2.
The captured CO2 would be differetiated with first silver bag you breathe into ( without the drink/pill).

This would capture the baseline if there is...or there isn't.

A result that is within the positive border is usually either a need to retake (due to contamination? or non-compliance), or a true positive that has been reduced by other medication or supplements.

For me, I think I would retake another UBT if I want to be sure, but perhaps from another lab facility.

[Gawad]

from what i know the UBT is very high specificity and sensitivity for Helicobacter bacteria, that changes the urea you take, and create additional CO2.
The captured CO2 would be differetiated with first silver bag you breathe into ( without the drink/pill).

This would capture the baseline if there is...or there isn't.

A result that is within the positive border is usually either a need to retake (due to contamination? or non-compliance), or a true positive that has been reduced by other medication or supplements.

For me, I think I would retake another UBT if I want to be sure, but perhaps from another lab facility.

To be frank, I'm tired of going to the doctors all the time. And as I said, I don't have any symptoms now - Yes, I know that many folks with that bacteria can be asymptomatic. Though can they get better (in time) without treatment?

Anyway, I find it rather peculiar how UBT has more sensitivity for H. Pylori. So even if you don't have that bacteria, you go take the breath test (say randomly) and the results can still show up as unequivocal or half positive/negative? Say, if a friend did it or anyone with a "clean" healthy stomach, would the results mostly show up that way just because, as you said, it's "H Pylori sensitive"?

Oh, forgot to say, they were about to give me antibiotics for it. I said I'll be fine, so they didn't.

[bertol]

Anyway, I got a breath test 3-4 weeks later. The results came up and said "H. Pylori", but it was unequivocal (neither negative nor positive). I went in for a second opinion, after reading about H. Pylori and how my symptoms differed from it, and then they told me that it could've been a "false positive". So if it was, say, the norovirus, could they have really mistaken it for bacteria?

Thank you.

H. pylori bacteria produces gas, which can be measured with a breath test. Viruses do not produce gas, so a viral infection cannot be confused for a bacterial infection during a breath test. You could have an acute viral infection and a chronic H. pylori infection at the same time, though.

[Helico_expert]

H. pylori break down urea to CO2 and Ammonia.

The Ammonia was used by H. pylori to neutralize the acid.

in the breath test, the Urea contain a radioactive carbon and when it's broken down, the radioactive CO2 is released.

in the stomach, very little bacteria can survive. So, if you are H. pylori negative, you'll get a very low radioactive reading in your breath. However, if you are H. pylori positive, you'll get a very high radioactive reading.

the reason for borderline reading could be due to:
1. incorrect use of the urea pill. For example, when you drink too much water, the pill is flushed down to the intestine and the urea is broken down by the intestine bacteria.
2. the stomach is no acidic enough. (let me know if you wish to know the detail)
3. there is not enough H. pylori in the stomach. (let me know if you wish to know the detail)

[Gawad]

H. pylori bacteria produces gas, which can be measured with a breath test. Viruses do not produce gas, so a viral infection cannot be confused for a bacterial infection during a breath test. You could have an acute viral infection and a chronic H. pylori infection at the same time, though.

I forgot to mention. I got another breath test two months after the first one and they didn't find anything in my stomach. The results came out as negative.

I believe it was a viral infection. My symptoms were very pretty much what you get from a stomach virus (lethargy, fatigue, fever, body aches). I doubt that it was H. Pylori.

H. pylori break down urea to CO2 and Ammonia.

The Ammonia was used by H. pylori to neutralize the acid.

in the breath test, the Urea contain a radioactive carbon and when it's broken down, the radioactive CO2 is released.

in the stomach, very little bacteria can survive. So, if you are H. pylori negative, you'll get a very low radioactive reading in your breath. However, if you are H. pylori positive, you'll get a very high radioactive reading.

the reason for borderline reading could be due to:
1. incorrect use of the urea pill. For example, when you drink too much water, the pill is flushed down to the intestine and the urea is broken down by the intestine bacteria.
2. the stomach is no acidic enough. (let me know if you wish to know the detail)
3. there is not enough H. pylori in the stomach. (let me know if you wish to know the detail)

Thanks for the analysis.

I would like to know more details on 2 & 3.

[Helico_expert]

2. the stomach is no acidic enough. (let me know if you wish to know the detail)

H. pylori is very smart. When there is no acid, it shut down it's ammonia producing enzyme, urease. So it wont kill itself by producing too much alkaline. So in elderly, young children and people who take PPI, there is less acid in the stomach. Therefore the urea breath test, which rely on the functional urease to break down urea into ammonia and CO2, will not be working. Hence, give a false negative result.

3. there is not enough H. pylori in the stomach. (let me know if you wish to know the detail)

The antigen test is relying on the H. pylori protein. The more H. pylori, the more protein and the stronger the test result. In a situation where the stomach is neutral, many more bacteria can start growing. the condition of the stomach changed due to these guts bacteria growing, which ultimately leaving no room for H. pylori to grow. H. pylori is a very slow grower and it cannot compete with these guts bacteria. As the H. pylori number grow smaller, it becomes harder for the antigen test to pick up the H. pylori protein.

[Gawad]

2. the stomach is no acidic enough. (let me know if you wish to know the detail)

H. pylori is very smart. When there is no acid, it shut down it's ammonia producing enzyme, urease. So it wont kill itself by producing too much alkaline. So in elderly, young children and people who take PPI, there is less acid in the stomach. Therefore the urea breath test, which rely on the functional urease to break down urea into ammonia and CO2, will not be working. Hence, give a false negative result.

3. there is not enough H. pylori in the stomach. (let me know if you wish to know the detail)

The antigen test is relying on the H. pylori protein. The more H. pylori, the more protein and the stronger the test result. In a situation where the stomach is neutral, many more bacteria can start growing. the condition of the stomach changed due to these guts bacteria growing, which ultimately leaving no room for H. pylori to grow. H. pylori is a very slow grower and it cannot compete with these guts bacteria. As the H. pylori number grow smaller, it becomes harder for the antigen test to pick up the H. pylori protein.

Thank you for this much-needed information.

I probably just gotten a bad virus stomach virus. I don't think that you'd get these "fluey" symptoms from Helico...if I'm not mistaken?