Helicobacter Forums

The bug has to cause an infection in a healthy host. But this is not the case with H.pylori. Some people have it and are fine.

asymptomatic doesnt mean they dont have a problem.

EVERYONE infected with H. pylori will have inflammation in the stomach. However, depending on the degree of inflammation, one may or may not feel it. For those who accumulated enough damage by H. pylori, they will eventually develop ulcer or cancer.

Nevertheless, H. pylori is just one tiny factor for the disease symptom. Genetic still is the main factor, follow by environmental factor such as diet.

Antibiotic is not ideal, but it is so far the only scientific way proven to kill H. pylori in Majority people. We occasionally hear people talk about homeopathic therapy that works for them but is usually complicated and not repeatable in other people.

Helico_expert wrote:

The bug has to cause an infection in a healthy host. But this is not the case with H.pylori. Some people have it and are fine.

asymptomatic doesnt mean they dont have a problem.

EVERYONE infected with H. pylori will have inflammation in the stomach. However, depending on the degree of inflammation, one may or may not feel it. For those who accumulated enough damage by H. pylori, they will eventually develop ulcer or cancer.

Nevertheless, H. pylori is just one tiny factor for the disease symptom. Genetic still is the main factor, follow by environmental factor such as diet.

Antibiotic is not ideal, but it is so far the only scientific way proven to kill H. pylori in Majority people. We occasionally hear people talk about homeopathic therapy that works for them but is usually complicated and not repeatable in other people.

In Kosh postulates about infection, the bug must cause an infection in a healthy host. With H.pylori, we don't even know if it is an infection or a symbiotic relation as it does not cause an acute reaction like other bacteria. Humans are evolved to either die after an infection OR fully recover. Dr Bruno Donatili who is an Immunologist, Gastrologist, Hepatologist, Oncologist Medical doctor with a Naturopathic degree and Osteopathic degree said that Mane lion mushroom can cure H.pylori infection through immuno modulation. This is not a quack but someone with an MD degree and a real impressive medical credentials who should not taken slightly. I am a scientist and I can tell this treatment of H.pylori is barbaric and in few decases we will learn that it was a big mistake. Almost like treating infections with mercury in the beginning of 19th century until mercury toxicity sets in in the patient.

I also deeply believe that H.pylori infection if it really exists, was probably caused by early exposure to antibiotics which disrupt the intestinal flora. Some intestinal bacteria once wiped out are hard to repopulate and that was a conclusion of a multidisciplinary research in Europe. These bacteria plays an important role in reducing inflammation and helping the body assimilating food. The post antibiotic era holds tightly to the belief of sterility of the body = health, therefore bombarding the bodies with tones of antibiotics is healthy. But new evidences after evidences are showing that patients exposed to antibiotics not only are getting sicker and sicker, but they are showing even metabolic syndrome due to disturbed bacterial flora.

Regarding H.pylori treatment if it really is the cause of some gastritis, Photodynamic therapy seems promising as well as liposomal deliveries of some lipids like Omega 3 which showed to kills 99.999 of H.pylori and no resistance can be gained.

The whole idea of Prof Marshall drinking the H. pylori and then prove that it is the bacteria that gives gastritis ... is to prove Kosh postulates

H.P porteur:
You did not tell me how you fixed your bodily balance.
It has been a whole week since I stopped using my medications and I feel better.
I take multi-vitamins and minerals supplements, vitamin D3, and vitamin B12. I also take probiotics twice a day.
I eat a lot of prebiotics and drink a lot of water.

I am so happy that most of my symptoms are gone.

Hi Youssif,

I am glad you are feeling better. I hope you stay better after this fourth treatment and you won't have a relapse like the other 3.

Regarding what I did. Like you, the first idiot doctor diagnosed me with H.pylori and gave me the deadly cocktail of HPAC for 10 days. It was in Toronto. few weeks after the treatment, my symptoms came back with revenge and I developed a jack itch from candida which lasted almost a year. I saw the same idiot doctor who almost killed me and he ignored it was candida and I had to go to another doctor to treat me with antifungal. After I realized how health care is dysfunctional and reading many stories like mine, I did my own research and being a scientific researcher helped me. I followed the Kalish method created by Doctor Kalish who is an MD and he explained why these treatments from incompetent doctors fail. They do fail because these PATENTED treatments make money for the pharmaceutical and for the doctors. It is easier for an MD to throw at you a cocktail of drugs after 5 minutes visit than to see you for an hour and do a precise check up. Anyway, I had a consultation with a good doctor from USA who did Kalish method. He ordered tests for me for my hormones, vitamin and mineral deficiencies, PCR stool tests which included yeasts and parasites and most pathogenic bacteria. This PCR tested picked up two parasites which were the culprit of my gastritis and H.pylori was probably innocent. They picked up the deadly Amoeba, Entamoeba.histolytica. This amoebia will cause you appendicitis and old doctors knew that chronic appendicitis will lead to gastritis. You can find in the literature why some doctors used to take the appendix away and the patient will be healed from his gastritis and ulcers. After fixing my hormones, killing the bug with High dose tinidazol 2 grams fo 10 days then 30 days taking Humatin. All my symptoms were GONE. But the antibiotic treatment was only after fixing my hormones which were all over the places and taking B12 injections because I was low in it as well as Vitamin D from the lack of the sun. I also did mercury chelation because my heavy metal testing was high on mercury. I treated that with DMSA once a week then taking multiminerals.

So you can see that my problem was not H.PYLORI. It was probably eradicated for no reason and I was not cured by trying to eradicate H.pylori.

Helico_expert wrote:The whole idea of Prof Marshall drinking the H. pylori and then prove that it is the bacteria that gives gastritis ... is to prove Kosh postulates

Helico-Expert,

the problem is that in the same family infected with the same strain of H.pylori some are asymptomatic. This defies the Kosh postulates. If it does cause a disease, she must do it in all stomachs not selectively in some and some not.

I have two problems with H.pylori. Many well respected scientists and doctors don't think that we understood this bug well. It has been found even in the iceman.

The second problem I have is if H.pylori is really pathogenic, then the treatment is very wrong and can cause more harm than good. Until a better wiser treatment is found which involves vaccine or immuno modulation or Photodynamic eradication, I think taking 4 harsh antibiotics will CERTAINLY cause serious problems in some patients or many. As I said manytimes, just tape in google scholar '' Candidiasis or Moniliasis'' from antibiotic usage. The amount of literature is HUGE. There is even patients who died from Candidiasis after antibiotic usage.

Conventional medicine will catch up later and tell us that H.pylori treatment was wrong. Like they learned today that Butter was not bad and eating eggs do not rise cholesterol and eating vegetable oil is not that healthy as they taught us these conventional wisdom of orthodox medicine.

You are not completely right, but not 100% wrong either.

Is H. pylori a pathogen? I think the argument is that scientist showed that children infected with H. pylori are less likely to develop allergies. Some scientists also showed the H. pylori carriers are less likely to develop immune related diseases.

However, if we disregard the NSAIDs users, almost 90% of the stomach ulcer patients carry H. pylori. Therefore, H. pylori may be beneficial to you when you are young, but post a threat when you are older.

Yes, we do know a lot of H. pylori but a lot more is still yet to be discovered. We do need a better treatment for H. pylori to more efficient killing of H. pylori to prevent other complications. However, there is no other methods proven to kill H. pylori more efficiently that antibiotics. In addition, I dont believe there would be an effective vaccine against H. pylori. We have done extensive experiment on this vaccine topic and we know it cannot be done (yet). Simple reason is because, if vaccination is possible, meaning antibody in one's body will prevent H. pylori infection. If that is true, then anyone cured from antibiotic treatment will not get reinfection again. because they carry antibodies against H. pylori. Sadly that is not true. Reinfection is very possible and some people even experienced multiple reinfection.

Yes, taking 3 antibiotics + 1 PPI can be brutal. But you'll have to weigh if it is worth it to risk for stomach ulcer or cancer? There is very very very weak evidence that homeopathic treatment actually work. If you read through the forum, you'll see people try months and months on different natural product and you seldom hear anyone get a complete eradication. In comparison to antibiotic treatment patients, you often read about positive comments on an improved quality of life. Therefore, to majority of people, antibiotic treatment helps.

Yes, H. pylori has been found in iceman, which is 5300 years old. But we know H. pylori exist way before human migrate out of Africa 60,000 years ago. That's why before discovery of H. pylori treatment, almost everyone on earth is infected with H. pylori. In addition, If take animals into consideration, Helicobacter may even exist millions of years ago.

Finally, before the development of the "better treatment", antibiotic treatment is still the way to go.

Helico-expert,

Regarding therapies other than Antibiotics, they might work even better but the problem small researchers don't have enough funds to do research on natural products they cannot patent like pharmaceutical drugs. Drugs cocktail of H.pylori are patented even if each drug on this cocktail has no patent. So it is a big cash cow for the pharmaceutical industry and they can get huge profit from these cocktails.

The other problem with gastritis, many times chronic appendicitis will cause it. But a doctor who sees his patients in 5 minutes and throws at him a nice well packaged cocktail knows that it is less work demanding to treat patients like that than to do a thorough checking and consultation. What if someone is H.pylori positive but his gastritis is related to his appendicitis.

Regarding first line therapy, most research is showing that its success rate fell to an unacceptable levels. This will happen with any therapy because we know that a slow growing bacteria develop quickly resistance.

The other issues of taking drugs like PPI and antibiotics is superinfections with candidiasis and C.difficile. Someone above in the comments just said that H.pylori treatment caused him C.difficile and now he has both. I bet that many cases of those who got worse from H.pylori treatment probably developed C.difficile infections. But doctors like to ignore this side effect to avoid law suit from these sickened patients by C.difficile. Using one antibiotic can SIGNIFICANTLY increase one chance of getting C.difficile. So imagine using 3 antibiotics and PPI.

Regarding the failure of vaccine therapy against H.pylori. Maybe H.pylori was meant to be living with us in a symbiotic relation?

The future is the judge and will tell us if taking 3 to 4 antibiotics at a high dose plus an acid reducer was a good or a bad idea. Doctors before used to tell their patients not to eat butter and eggs to lower cholesterol and now we know that this was a non sense advice and new scientific researches are proving that Butter and eggs both have no influence in hypercholesteremia and they might even lower cholesterol.

Great ideas in discussion.

H. pylori maybe a friendly bacteria? Maybe

Antibiotics cause more problem? Maybe

Natural therapy can be useful? I am sure there will be some genuine natural product out there that can kill HP in vivo. However the evidence is weak at the moment.

Nevertheless, before we confuse everybody, in general, HP still a risk of ulcer and cancer. it is better to advise every infected people to get the HP eradicated. Antibiotics remain the most successful method in eradicating HP.